Interview with Shannon Dicus, San Bernardino County Sheriff

Featuring Sheriff-Coroner Shannon Dicus from the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department

Transcript

interview with Sheriff Shannon Dicus

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

sheriff, shannon, people, law enforcement, cops, department, san bernardino county, drugs, community, relates, number, deal, terms, gangs, hook, realignment, jail, police, person, career

SPEAKERS

Don

Don  00:04

Hello, my name is Don English director of Children Deserves Success and Executive Director of the San Bernardino County Wide Gangs and Drugs Task Force. And I want to welcome you to our Children Deserve Success Podcast. Twice a month, we will be sending out these recordings regarding all things related to Child Welfare and Attendance, School Attendance Review Board, Foster Youth Services, McKinney Vento Homeless Programs in our county and the San Bernardino County Wide Gangs and Drugs Task Force. This month focus will be an interview with the San Bernardino County Sheriff, Shannon Dicus. Shannon is my distinct pleasure to have you with me today. And I am so so excited about what we are about to embark upon. So Shannon, if you would please share your background as it relates to your career in law enforcement.

00:52

Absolutely Don. Well, thank you. And I thank you for allowing me to be here. I'm really excited about doing this. But to kind of give you a little bit of my background, it really starts with my father. We came to San Bernardino County and he was seeking an agricultural career when he graduated from Kampot Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, and we ended up in Cucamonga, long before it was ever Rancho Cucamonga he worked for a small company that was basically he was a poultry pathologist, so a chicken Quincy, if you will, and he was in charge of egg production for a company called Pacesetter. Shortly after having two kids getting a mortgage and starting his new job as an executive in this company, the company folded. At the time my uncle was a sheriff's lieutenant in Santa Barbara County. And my dad called him and called his brother and said, Hey, my company went belly up. What do I do? And at the time, the sheriff was Frank Bland. And my uncle said I think the sheriff and San Bernardino County is hiring. So long story short, my dad goes down and two weeks later, he ends up becoming a member of the sheriff's department waiting to go to the academy. So that process kind of takes me into growing up with my father going through the Sheriff's Department. And I can tell you I spent my entire childhood telling my dad I would never be a deputy sheriff that I was going to be an FBI agent. So I was probably the first purposeful cop in my family. And as we go through I graduated high school I grew up primarily in the Twentynine Palms, Joshua Tree area, great small town area to grow up in. But two days after high school, I found myself in the US Army as a military policeman. And I got assigned to the 101st airborne division. And that's a rapid deployment base. So military police do a number of things, convoy escorts, and I got a chance to see the world, specifically the Middle East and South America. So after doing that, I was really interested in doing a number of tactical things that went along with the military. But in order to stay and do that they had a rank and a maturity requirement. I was only 20 and you needed to be 23 years old. So I decided I was going to get out and go to college. So I came back home. And when I came back home, I went to Cal State San Bernardino. And during that process, the economy was really good. I got out in 1988. But as we move into the early 90s, the economy started to tank. And as the economy started to tank, I started a veterans work study program that happened to be at Loma Linda, and it was for the Loma Linda Police. So going back to I wanted to be an FBI agent. This is my footprint, if you will into the federal system. So the chief of police there I was doing like a dispatch job as a work study person. And the chief approached me and said, Hey, you are an NP? Do you want to come to work for me? You can work graveyard so you can still finish college. So I took him up on his offer. I found myself on a plane going to Little Rock to go through their academy and I finished and I started working for them. What I found out in the federal system is that Titanic turns very slowly, didn't really fit my personality. So I had to eat crow with my father and tell him Nope, I want to be a sheriff's deputy. So lo and behold, in 1991, I started in the Sheriff's Department. I put my college career on hiatus just to get through the academy. And when I got through and started working in the jail, I jumped right back into college and finished and got my bachelor's degree. And I think schooling I got my bachelor's degree in criminal justice. So it kind of went along with the plan, if you will. So I started into the sheriff's department I've had every assignment there is all the way from being a brand new deputy sheriff all the way up to the UnderSheriff. And I've had a number of patrol assignments. I was a deputy for about 11 years. So I had quite a few patrol assignments, narcotics and SWAT, intelligence, and then moving into the administration of the sheriff's department as far as running the Bureau of Administration, running our intelligence division, and then ultimately moving into the command and executive staff. So all of those experiences have kind of led up to being the sheriff. And then I had the gold standard of sheriffs to learn from John McMahon. And when he decided to retire, there was just a bit of a hole in terms of experience in the sheriff's department. Our bench strength is very, very strong command staff all the way up amazing people just need a little get it get a little bit of age on them based on our retirement system and a number of things. So On the board, put up the appointment, I applied and got interviewed and fortunately was accepted for the position.

Don  05:07

Wow, Shannon, your career thus far has been, I would say magnificent, but we're pleased that you're still going. So we hope to have you around a lot longer. Now secondly, let me ask you this, what has prepared you for your current work as the newly appointed chair?

05:26

Well, when I talk about the administration, and really being able to go that it's, it's understanding the business of law enforcement as well. So we certainly understand the community aspects coming up. I mean, as a deputy sheriff, you work directly for the community. And I call it the line of influence. And if you we have a lot of ranks in the sheriff's department, but the ones that have the most influence over large groups are really being adept at providing customer service to the civilians out there in the world that are calling you for service, then our sergeants, even though there's detectives in the middle are sergeants because they have care and influence over both the community when that we in terms of how our service is being delivered. And then also overall, the deputies then jumps again, from a sergeant to a captain, they have influence over the community, they directly serve, and they speak the sheriff's voice, but they have influence over the entire command. And then it jumps from Captain to the sheriff himself because the sheriff is elected. And the sheriff, if we're doing the right things are policing in a manner the community Express expects based on them being able to vote for the sheriff, in terms of the elected position. So all of those steps, particularly in the administration, running the business of law enforcement, you know how to do and then of course, interaction with the community making sure that they understand who you are, and and truly being able for them that you talked about transparency, look in your heart, because they're making a judgment call on whether or not they want you represent representing them in terms of the chief law enforcement officer for the county.

Don  06:49

All right. What are three areas of need, in the communities that you serve, that have been illuminated by the pandemic?

06:58

Well, I'm gonna go to one that I think is just the global problem, really, across our nation. And during the pandemic, we became highly polarized, really, in terms of politics, not in terms of what I call people. And because of the polarization, you see a nation and even locally that almost as a 5050, split, but all on political lines, I hope to be a unifier in terms of keeping us in the middle, and making sure we're all talking to each other. You know, it wasn't that long ago, it didn't matter what political party you belong to, you could actually go have coffee, and agree or disagree on politics, and everybody was still friends. Right now we're so polarized. And I think government as a whole and including law enforcement in that, including what you do with the schools in that there are a lot of us that are in the middle trying to make sense of these highly polarized politics in a time, that's difficult to do so. So that would be number one. Number two, in more of the law enforcement circles, the incidences of mental health and homelessness are just through the roof. And in a Sheriff's Department, it really is amplified to some degree because we of course, we have the patrol responsibility, and responding to calls for service surrounding these people. And you know, they're highly polarized politics, unfortunately, in that as well. And there's really two sides to the story as far as being able to explain what we do in some of those calls. And I call those lawful but awful instances. And if you're really trying to solve that we got to be talking to each other. So in terms of California as a whole, a lot of laws and things are getting passed that are really focused on the police. And I'll just take, for instance, drugs going from a felony to a misdemeanor. And I know that probably a lot of people listening to the podcast might be thinking, Oh, here's another cop saying we should throw people in jail. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, is that when you make drugs and misdemeanor, there used to be hooks, and I'm talking what I call human hooks, and they were to make us behave, right. And what I mean by that is if you and I go to the doctor, and the doctor says, Hey, Shannon, you're gaining a little bit of weight, it's going to affect your health. That's kind of the wake up call. That's the hook that makes you go out and exercise. Well, it used to be we had drug court and a number of other things that said, Shannon Dichos, if you're a drug abuser, the hook was this is a felony. But if you go and you go to drug rehab, and you successfully graduate from the program, then we're going to make it a misdemeanor, you continue to live your life right now everything's a misdemeanor. And I think there's a direct correlation between drugs and why we're seeing what we're seeing on the streets. A lot of these mental health issues are drug induced psychosis, a lot of people can't see the forest through the trees. I have a hope team, which is our homeless outreach program. And we're able to house a large number of people just last year alone, almost actually over 600 people. And then when you look at that and look at what they're facing today, those folks some of them just don't want to reintegrate to society and they don't want help. They don't want to play by the rules in a housing area or anything else that we're able to offer them services for. So I don't know what's better in terms of humanity. Is that are they out there rotting in their own skin or going to jail before you at least have moment to clarity and you're getting treatment. So but here's my answer to that, I do believe the direction that we're going could be a good one if the state wouldn't put the cart in front of the horse, if we had capacity, and that's what's missing capacity. And we gave the DEA, the public defender and our judges the tools, to sentence a drug offender to a rehab facility, make the hook that hook that's now missing, remake the hook. And then if they don't participate in that program, then they'd go to jail. And I think that would be a much better process. And the process we have right now, everything's we're the last stop, unfortunately, law enforcement as a whole, we contact people in the streets, and then we have them in the jail. And there are a lot of people that come to us that have really bad issues in terms of their mental health, and bad medical issues. And we could all argue whether or not they should be in jail, but based on the severity of their crime, they have to be in jail. And then I think what we're missing is I don't see any of the researchers or investigative reporters looking at take that one person, a tragic incident happened to one of those lawful but awful incidents I'm talking about, go back and talk to their family, find out how many times they've been to an emergency room, find out how many times they've been to a crisis center. And where was the intervention at any of these places. And again, I'm not blaming hospitals. And I'm not blaming crisis centers, because there's also no capacity for them. If there is capacity to do conservatorships and things, I think we'd be seeing some of these major problems handled better and in a much more humane manner than we're seeing now.

Don  11:28

Well, family, you called yourself to unifier. And I fancy myself a unifier. And I can really relate to what you're seeing because in my 28 years in education, I've worked in the juvenile court and community school realm. So seeing all those students who go through and some who actively want to change their lives, and others who may need the hook that you were referencing. You work with the San Bernardino county wide gangs and drugs task force a partner with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. How is that work shaped your view of various partners including business and community, education entities, faith based organizations, family outreach to local government and legislators, drug prevention, organization, health and wellness organizations, all of which are represented on the executive board of a task force.

12:19

gangs and drugs is critical. And it's funny when I first entered the space of gangs and drugs, when you listen to it, it sounds like a cop program gangs and drugs things cops are dealing with. What I want the public to know is that's not the case. The Board of Directors just like you talked about are from all walks of life, the cop connection to that as a couple number one, we are also on the board. But it's funded by asset forfeiture money's not just from the sheriff's department, but from police departments across the board. And what the board's objective is to use that money in the benefit of kids. And a lot of it comes out in scholarships for for kids that are at risk, trying to you know, better themselves by going to school. So the Board of Directors funnels a lot of that money in a different way. And I don't think that the general public knows that law enforcement is involved to that degree. So if you just see gangs and drugs, they probably think it's a bunch of cops going out there to do raids and things. And it's not, it's community based. And when you talk about the interaction for us with all the different board members, I can tell you, it has been one of the best collaborative relationships I've had. I've had my eyes open to foster youth. And I gotta tell you, I've developed my own passions for charity as a result of being involved in gangs and drugs, foster youth that's aging out think about these kids that are really at risk, have not had the best home lives in a number of cases. And then all of a sudden, they're aged out of the foster care system. What do I do with myself, and I take a great deal of pride in talking to them about maybe a career in law enforcement and not a cop. San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department is a very large employer. We have 4000 employees, only half of us are cops, the rest of us are all disciplines. It could be medical, clerical, I mean, you name it, the jobs exist within the sheriff's department. So if I wouldn't have had that exposure to gangs and drugs, I wouldn't have seen this when we talk about community based groups. No Drugs, America, I work with them. And Frank Kelly, Brenda Dowdy he's the one that introduced me to foster kids that were aging out and I had no idea some of the challenges that they deal with. And then Ted Alejandre as a whole. We talked about unifiers. I've always seen Ted as a unifier. And it's always been good for me to stay in contact with all of the folks that work at county schools and our local schools in general. And the reason is, is they interact with their parents. And just like I said, I need to have the pulse of the community of what's going on and their expectations of how they want to be policed. But I also gained that pulse by working with Ted, working with county schools and seeing what's important to our parents out there.

Don  14:45

Shannon, you know, I've seen you interact with others numerous times. How are you able to continue to deliver content with such energy and passion?

14:54

Well, at the end of the day, Don, it's because we love what we do. I've been the master of my own destiny. In terms of retirement for a little while, but what I see coming from the state, there's a lot of things you can make the them the enemy, if you will, Sacramento, the enemy. And I think a lot of things that are coming out are probably well meaning by the people that pass some of these laws. But I think if I can be around for them as a resource to talk about how it affects the boots on the ground in law enforcement, that maybe we could guide these in a way, that's beneficial. And you and I just covered a lot of ground in that space when we talk about, you know, mental health, and drug abuse, putting the cart before the horse building capacity. And, and that ties into knowing gangs and drugs, a lot of those folks are capacity builders. So when we have things come from the state, and you'll see a number of instances where you heard hear the word realignment, you need people with experience to be able to deal with these realignment things, a lot of what traditionally was the state's responsibility are getting pushed down to all of us locally. And it doesn't matter what space you're in, whether you're in County Schools, whether you're in Department of Behavioral Health, or whether you're in the sheriff's department, there has been some level of realignment, probation, just experience realignment with California Youth Authority. So this is happening. If we take all the people with experience out of the picture, and you throw your hands up, because you're tired of politics and things like that, then we're not helping the new generation, if you will come up and try to solve these problems, it would be my goal in the sheriff's department to make some of the really hard decisions, and at least get us in a direction so that anybody that comes in behind me doesn't say when I really wish Shannon would have made that decision.

Don  16:31

And I do have the privilege of serving on the Juvenile Justice Coordinating Commission and executive board. So I am very familiar with the changes in juvenile court system. And we do have a ways to go as it relates to that. And I do like what you're saying about it as it relates to realignment with all entities, because we're all going through a really tumultuous time as it relates to the pandemic, and just changes overall. Last question I have for you, Shannon, and you kind of touched on it. And I really appreciate that. Community based policing and defunding school police are hot topics. How do you perceive the current climate of San Bernardino County? And what role can the Gangs and Drugs Task Force serve to assist in bridging the gap as it relates to law enforcement and community relations?

17:22

So I'll break that down twofold. Number one is really the Gangs and Drugs Task Force is the bridge, because the directors are representative from all different walks of life, that is one of our many windows into engaging the community, whether it's with county schools, whether it's with a faith based organization, or a community based organization. And one of the things I love about the county we live in is the county's vision. And the whole basis of that is really what we view from cradle to career, and what can we do as government officials to support any person when they're on that journey. And I want the sheriff's department to be a part of that in terms of the basic security, you know, if children feel they're safe, if their parents feel they're safe, then their pursuit of the American dream becomes much easier because they're not looking over their shoulder. So those relationships are critical. And then switching gears and talking about school police. My experience with SROs, those kids love their SROs. And if you have the right personality of the the officer that's out there that enjoys being around kids. And that's what's critical. I think we as law enforcement agencies should never view that just as an assignment, you need to pick the person that has the right heart, because when you do that you're accomplishing more than just the security of the school, you're accomplishing a relationship with those kids, where they're not afraid of cops, they understand what cops do, and they know that they're there to help them on many different levels. And then if you're looking at from a parent's viewpoint, unfortunately, we live in a world of these mass shootings, school shootings and a number of things. And I can tell you, it's law enforcement is heart that if something like that happens, we're going to risk it all the save those kids, and it may be one law enforcement officer or one proper firearm there that that law enforcement has that is able to stop the violence, if you will, and having them in schools is the right place at the right time. And then I don't want to see our school administrators have to worry about safety and security. I have gray hair and no hair for a reason. It's my job to worry about that for them. And I just love that program. And there's a lot of people that will say that we are creating a school to prison pipeline. I don't believe that. And I don't believe it because of something you said earlier. There are a number of kids that we can make inroads with. And we can change their lives if they're going down an improper path. But there are some people and it goes with both kids and adults, maybe much slower, with much more with adults, that there are some folks that are just truly evil in the world. And we need to be able to deal with them. And that's what law enforcement does. And that's where we go back to my statement earlier about lawful but awful situations. A lot of times the police are the final backdrop whether you're in a school, or whether you're out there in the public, and we as a society need to support them because we need somebody  that's going to be able to deal with those people that we as sane human beings really don't want to deal with. We expect our police to deal with that. And we need to back there play even those lawful but awful incidents and have a greater understanding. When a person that has a mental health problem whether it's a child or an adult, if they have a gun or a knife, the police's first responsibility is to contain that so it doesn't get bigger than it is and deal with the safety problem. And there are no magic words, you can tell the person that's in crisis to get them to drop a knife or a gun, even though we try and we have a lot of training as it relates to that there is no psychiatrist is going to be able to come to the scene and give the magic words or anything like that. So we have to deal with that first. And once we've dealt with that, then we can peel the onion back of mental health and a number of things and get people services. But a lot of times during those, you know, immediate interactions, sometimes they end violently. And it's not something that we want to happen. But it's something that does happen and we need to support our cops that are out there making those quick decisions based on our safety as a society.

Don  21:01

Well, Shannon, I'll tell you what, I don't have the pleasure of protecting and serving. But I am gray and I am bald. I don't know what that really means. But that just

21:12

means we have the experience to help the world out that unifier thing is alive and well. 

Don  21:16

That's right. I tell you what, Shannon, your wealth of knowledge. I will say that your heart is definitely in the right place. I will say that the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department is in good hands. And I appreciate your service. And I thank you for your time today. Thank you for listening. We hope you find this exciting information valuable. If you have any topics or questions that you would like address, please email them directly to cwa@sbcss.net. As always, we hope you stay well and continue to transform life through education.